Tile Redi pan reinforcement

Name: Kurt
Posted: Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 10:44 am MST
 
Topic
Hi, I've installed a Tile Redi shower pan and was hoping to reinforce it by laying 5/16" durock next gen into the pan (cut around drain hole), and adhering to the Tile Redi pan using the supplied epoxy mortar. Once set-up I plan on taping the seams cut in the durock to fit the pan and maintain the 1/4" slope. This will be followed by red gaurd, sealing the edges and laying the tiles ontop on top of the durock. I will grout with an epoxy-based grout.

Does anyone see any major problems with using durock as a shower floor substrate for tile in the manner described above?

Thanks for your time and comments
Name: Bljack
Posted: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:13 pm MST
 
Reply: 1
Backers won't make it stronger and it's already waterproof, so I'd call your plan a waste of time and money.
Name: John K
Posted: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 4:34 pm MST
 
Reply: 2
Thats about the craziest thing I ever heard. Just do it as the directions say. You will be sorry if you don't. grin
Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 6:55 pm MST
 
Reply: 3
That idea is NUTS! Why would you do that to a high-dollar Tile-Redi pan?

The board won't readily conform to the slope and the epoxy thinset won't make it so. The Redgard won't stick the the polyurethane pan either.

What is the real reason you want to do this? What exactly did you do to screw this up?grin
Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 6:56 pm MST
 
Reply: 4
OH! I get it!

APRIL FOOLS!grin
Name: Kurt
Posted: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:58 pm MST
 
Reply: 5
What you didn't know is that TileRedi pans have been known to develop soft spots over time, especially the spot were you step into the shower day-in and day-out. If you are a large person the chances are more than not this will happen.

The durock support (yes, dura-rock does provides considerable support), if cut in 4 diagonal-triangles conforms perfectly to the pan (3'x3') and maintains the slope. The durock is adhered to the pan via the epoxy mortar and the red gaurd is used to water proof the durock, not the polyurethane (red gaurd is approved for a shower pans).

Call it crazy! Call it stupid! Call it a waste of time & money! Call it what you want. But, chiseling out broken tiles from a polyurethane pan would definetly make me feel like I wasted time and money. At that point, your shower is ruined. I call it insurance to be on the safe side.

It cost me 8 dollars for the durock and about an hour to cut, file and lay the durock with the TileRedi supplied epoxy mortar. Taping the joints and skim coating the durock seams was, oh my gosh. Pennies and not more than 15 min. I had red gaurd and flexbond mortar sitting around from an earlier job.

The end product is perfect with a very durable concrete base feel and a perfect 1/4 inch slope all around. The tiles laid down perfectly. I made no mistakes to the pan to trigger this extra step (s), just thinking out of the box and forward thinking without counting pennies for profit.

Perhaps this is a lesson in TileRedi pans. But, I will continue to use them with my upgrade as insurance.

Later noobies!
Name: Uniontileguy
Posted: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 7:46 am MST
 
Reply: 6
If you were worried about a support issue, why didnt you just put in a mud pan, noobie? What you did is stupid, and a waste of time.
Name: Bono
Posted: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 2:14 pm MST
 
Reply: 7
That is great. $700 for a Tile Redi base (and then screw with it for hours to "reinforce") Vs. $700 for a professionally installed mud pan, liner, and drain. I can see why you are so defensive.
Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 3:29 pm MST
 
Reply: 8
I would be curious to know exactly where the water that will accumulate in the cement board over time will go. Wait until that sucker starts stinking from the soap and body tissue that permeates the cement board and begins to rot. You'll be pounding your chest in a different fashion then my friend.grin

Some people are just so hard-headed it amazes me.grin
Name: Uniontileguy
Posted: Tue, Apr 6, 2010 at 4:34 pm MST
 
Reply: 9
Bud, I like the way he added the phrase "later noobies"! What a dope!
Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 9:26 am MST
 
Reply: 10
He's the only "noobie" here. I just finished a job for a woman that also "had all the answers".

As it turns out I guess I really didn't finish the job, I just finished working for her.grin

We walked in on a Monday morning and said "good morning" and she jumped me over a cup of water my helper had spilled on the floor and didn't clean it up. I'm not much for people screaming at me so that was the final straw - we aren't there anymore.grin

I'm not really sure what the meaning of "noobie" is and I don't think he spelled it correctly either but if it means what I think it means then my thirty-three years of experience doesn't necessarily qualify me as a noobie.grin
Name: Bill Vincent
Posted: Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 7:41 pm MST
 
Reply: 11
Perhaps this is a lesson in TileRedi pans. But, I will continue to use them with my upgrade as insurance.


Todays lesson-- DON'T USE EM!

I've done one shower where a tile-redy pan was used, and I had to float the walls way out of plumb just to meet the pan. Unless the walls are literally built around the pan, and the drain is located perfectly centered, the pan's going to give you fits. Better off just to build a traditional mud base.
Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:23 pm MST
 
Reply: 12
I too just finished a shower where the homeowner had the Tile-Redi pan installed before she called me.

The pan flexed terribly when weight was applied. After a meeting of the minds with the Tile-Redi experts we came to the conclusion that the only fix short of removing the pan and walls and starting over was to drill holes in the pan and screw it to the subfloor. Hehehehe Can you imagine? So we drilled sixteen holes in the pan and screwed it down.

What we did after that was pretty interesting too.grin

I will never be involved with another Tile-Redi pan for any reason. Ever. Never. Never ever.grin
Name: Shower Novice
Posted: Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 8:15 am MST
 
Reply: 13
So, sounds like you guys don't like the Tile-Redi pan much. I'm under construction and looking at these seriously as an alternative to the mud method. (I live in the boonies and there are not any tile guys around here that I would trust to make the mud bed properly. What do you suggest other than the Tile-Redi pan? Anyone think the Kerdi system is worthwile?
Name: Kurt
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 6:09 am MST
 
Reply: 14
Alright guys, I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I find it interesting that others are weighing in on the Redi Tile pan in a negative way. I am not saying this because I went with the system but I really like the Tile Redi pan. I had no problems with the installation and it slipped true into a 3x3 framed space that originally had a fiberglass showing insert. I did have to plane the framing above only to true the 2x4s for the 1/2" durock boards. I did my modification with the redgaurd coated durock reinforcement only as a precaution. In regards to some of the comments:

1. Where does all of the scum go in a mud bed? It seeps into the mortar and eventually turns to mold and stink. That is, unless a water impermeable grout is used and precautions are taken to carefully seal around the tile/wall interfaces etc. If you want to be professional use red gaurd as a primary shower pan water proofing precaution:

http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/docs/-/ns/TB2%20RedGard%20IAPMO_linked.pdf

So, if you cover a Tile Redi Pan as I described with durock and use 3 heavy coats of red gaurd followed by laying the tiles and grouting with something like CEG-Lite™ 100% Solids Commercial Epoxy Grout then you will have a water proof shower pan that is heavy duty. A tip is before you lay down the durock into the TileRedi pan using the supplied epoxy mortar, put a small bead of Black Jack liquid rubber (Lowes for ~ $4) around the edge of the pan so when you adhere the durock it oozes up around the edges (but not too much) to seal. Like anything, its all in the details. IMO this is better than a "professional" mud bed from a penny pincher for profit that would not use a primary shower pan water proofer or a high end grout. Guys, I'm not saying everyone is like this but more are than not.

2. I have no reason to be defensive as suggested above. I was quoted between $5-6K for a shower install (and a few other odds and ends. I know its tough times) with a professional mud bed but still had to buy the tiles. I have spent between 1/2-2/3 that price for an entire bathroom gut followed by new tile floor on hardie, tile base board, maple vanity, maple cabinet for towels etc., granite top, granite shower curb and granite shower highlights, shower controls & plumbing, complete new paint (epoxy-based for water proofing from Sherwin-Williams on both walls and ceiling), new toilet and yes that $500.00 tile Redi pan.

I simply posted what I've done thinking it might help. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I can only say that I'm really happy with the out come. BTW, while I was laying the floor tiles, I took a scrap piece of durock and did three coats of regaurd and kept a puddle of water on it for 3 days. No moisture came through the other side.

Take care guys or should I say later noobies.
Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:47 am MST
 
Reply: 15
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Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:48 am MST
 
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Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:48 am MST
 
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Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:48 am MST
 
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Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:49 am MST
 
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Name: Bud Cline Tile
Posted: Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:51 am MST
 
Reply: 20
Closed Thread

And hopefully buried forever in the archive of
Bad and Stupid Ideas.

And we still don't know what a "noobie" is.
Thread Status: Closed