tile install labor cost variance based on tile siz

Given a 500 square foot room, which option would require more labor (time) - using individual 3"x3" tile, or 12 x 24 tile?

3x3.

Why on Earth would anyone want 500 square feet of 3x3?

It's more complicated than this, but I have a tile installer saying that it takes longer to install a large tile than the 32 small tiles it would take to equal the same area. He said it is due to having to set, lift, and re-set the large tile to level. It still doesn't seem to add up to the time to set 32 3x3 tiles!

Properly setting, bedding and leveling a 12x24 tile will be time consuming and could take several times longer than 3x3's and will use at least twice as much mortar. It will also involve significantly more floor prep as the larger the tile, the flatter you need the floor to be to start. If the 3x3's are mesh mounted, don't cheat and call it 32 individual tiles, it would only be 2 sheets.

Your installer's response indicates his experience and knowledge and an installer who tells you otherwise has not worked with large format tile before. If you want a pattern, like brick pattern, it will consume even more time.

[Edited by bljack on Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:42 pm EST]

I agree with bljack. If the floor isnt flat when installing a running bond pattern it will show and you'll spend alot of time padding tiles up to keep them flat. You will most likely use a 1/2 inch notch, and backbutter each individual tile. You have alot more play with the 3x3, and can use a 1/4 inch notch when installing. A good tile setter can install 500 ft of 3x3 in a day or so. The same guy may only get half of the larger tile installed in the same amunt of time. When you buy tile thats 1x1, 2x2, or 3x3, 99% of the time it comes on a sheet. Your installers right, your wrong.

I was going under the assumption that a more experienced tile installer would make sure that the floor is flat BEFORE beginning to tile when using a larger format tile such as 12x24 so that they can avoid constantly lifting tiles back up to make them flat. At least that's what I would do. Gotta stop assuming.

I agree, the larger tiles will most likely take longer to set properly.

I have also found that many/most 12x24 tiles are rectified. This adds even more time and increases the probability of lippage. So in that case, the installer spends more time setting the tiles, and in the end you may still have some faults. The flatness of the substrate is the key.

Jaz

The question was very vague and provided very little details.

Stan, you could gauge the floor first and it would still take longer to set with the larger tiles. You should stop assuming. 3x3 tiles are called 3x3 when you buy them. They are actually 12x12 in most cases. 500 ft = 500 sheets. They come pretty square, and in most cases you just spread thinset, set tile, beat it in with a float. Its easy. You obviously never worked with either.

Just to clarify, the 3x3 are actually 4 rows of 4 tiles, each tile being 3 inches wide with the joint. So when you measure the sheet its actually 1 sq. Foot, or 12x12. Being smaller in size and on the sheet they tend to roll with the floor and go in easy. Its more difficult to get a large tile with a tight joint to lay flat, no matter how flat or level your sub floor is. Thats all I have to say about that!

So you assume I never worked with either uniontileguy? You should take your own advise and stop assuming. I've been professionally installing since 1992. Pretty sure I've installed my fair share of all types and sizes of tiles. He never said the 3x3 was on sheets. He said they were individual 3x3.

I am proud of you. Even if thier not on a sheet its not easier! When have you ever used a floor tile, 3x3, that wasnt on a sheet? Never! The only exception is as a dot in a hopscotch or and accent tile. If they where individual I would have a rack made and run them in in 3 hours.

[Edited by uniontileguy on Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:36 pm EST]

Ok now I think your confusing yourself. I had said 3x3 was more labor time and in your last post you said even if thier not on a sheet it's not easier. Then in your first post you say the 12x24 is more labor. The OP said it was "individual 3"x3" tile", not 3"x3" on sheets. I was giving my opinion and you were trying to give an opinion on something, but like they say "opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one". 500 feet by yourself, in 3 hours? Especially by a, I'll assume (woops there I go again) union tile guy. Highly dought it. You have to figure in about 6 coffee breaks in that amount of time. Anyways no need for you to be proud of me since I'm proud enough for myself .

That was a typo. Your right, I am union, and I work with a helper. The helper gets the tile ready and spreads, I install the tile. Actually its not hard with a rack. In Philadelphia if a setter doesnt install at least 800 ft of 6x6 quarry on a job they dont work. (this is a commercial job of course). By the way if you wanna start the whole union-non union sh*t your way out gunned. I make more an hour than you, I have personal choice health benefits, 2 pensions, 126,000 in my anuity after 15 years, a vacation check every summer, and better training. Stan every other guy that commented went against what you said. I get it, your right and know everything. Im still waiting for you to show me 3x3 floor tile not on a sheet. Good luck

Im still waiting for you to show me 3x3 floor tile not on a sheet.

He's still busy with the scissors.

Usually the sheets on display are grouted at the store, or they might run just on row of 3x3's along a 12 or 18 on a display board. The op might not even realize they came mounted on a sheet.

Lol never did I say I know everything. I was replying to the OP when he said he had individual 3x3 tiles. I didn't say it was individual 3x3. It could have been 4x4 he was referring to. Were you there to actually see the tile? No. Was I actually there to see the tile? No. I am going off of what the OP posted. I still doubt an individual union tile installer could install 500 feet of 3x3 sheets of tile in 3 hours. Unless that 3 hours is spread out over a full day. I wasn't knocking unions either. From what I hear the union tile installers aren't doing so well these days. Most are sitting home waiting for work and have been doing so for the past year so I guess you have all day to sit here and respond to questions. Guess you better spend that money reeeeal slow. I'm off to work now .

I work everyday. Also it would be hard for anyone to install 500 ft of anything a day. YOu must have missed the part about using a rack. It makes the job alot easier. Stan, we still friend, and I still wanna go bowling with you. Just be sure not to cut you bowling hand when you are cutting down all those 3x3s.