Denshield and my shower

Well I'm in quite a delima. Early on in my remodeling process I asked a lot of questions of my plumber contacts, tile layers, and did some research on the web including this forum regarding the use of Denshield. So I've installed it to specs on the walls of the shower and also on a sloped bench in the shower. In the bottom of the shower is a double floated pan with rubber lining below. I have used a preformed curb with a preset slope into the shower and have installed dukliner niches which are above and away from the shower water flow.

Now when I bring in tile installers (8 so far) to get a quote they all throw a fit because.
1. I used denshield instead of durock or concrete board.
2. I used a preformed curb instead of concrete over mesh
3. I used the dukliner niches instead of letting them make their own.

The consensus from them is for sure the denshield was the wrong product. With the only suggested remedy besides tearing it all out given is to coat the denshield with Redguard and hope for the best. Hardly something to get excited about when considering the only thing left is this shower from a Masterbed/bath remodel.

I need to wrap this job up but I don't want to do it wrong either. My wife is due soon on our first child. These tile installers have managed to help waste about 2 months of my time so far.

The only posts here on Denshield are a couple of years old, has the product shown to be that unreliable in the last couple of years? Should I rip it all out and change to something else? What are your thoughts, good, bad, and otherwise. Your input is appreciated.

Regards,

Nathan

If Denshield is installed correctly it will work just fine. While it is not my product of choice, thousands of showers have been installed using it. My biggest concern is the bottom edge of the board needs to have a gap at the bottom edge and filled with sealant. Follow the directions for installing the board.

Would you suggest as the last tile installer to coat the surface with Redguard to make it completely water proof? He still wouldn't do the job, but he said if he were me he would roll it on to make a rubberized surface.

Thanks,

I might do the bottom edge and the fasteners, but the coating on it is said to be waterproof as is. So long as your not building a steam room and take care with the bottom edge in a residential application you should be fine. Reguardless of what your contractors are saying it is a accepteble product per the Tile Council Of America. (detail B-420)

As Eric mentioned problems arise when the bottom of the board is buried in the deck mud as is the norm with cement boards. Did you keep the board up out of the area that gets the deck mud? Have you studied the diagram at the GP site?

It's not clear to me how the base is built. Do you have a pre-slope that is from 3/4" down to about 1/4", then the liner, then the deck mud which is about 1 1/4" or so? Where is the bottom of the DenShield in regards to the deck mud?

Jaz

I followed the diagram that the GP site has when I installed it. The shower pan was installed before the densheild.

Therefore the denshield is above the deck mud a bit it definitely isn't setting on it or in it in any way. There is a pre-slope, then the liner that goes up the wall. Then the deck mudd, I get compliments on the installation of the shower pan from them. The frustrating part is the refusal to lay the tile over the densheild.

Regards,

Nathan

I'm having a hard time with the eight refusals. Not buyin' into that. With as many hacks as there are out there and as many desperate installers as there are out there I can't imagine finding eight in a row that would refuse the job when there is nothing wrong with what is there so far. Most of those guys don't even know what Denshield is.

I have personally tested Denshield myself (totally submerged in water) and found it to be acceptable but, I also wouldn't use it. If the Denshield is installed correctly the seams and fasteners should be sealed with caulk, and I assume you used 1/2" Denshield as opposed to the 1/4" Denshield. To paint the entire Denshield surface with RedGard is an asinine idea- what are those guys thinking. That process wouldn't accomplish a single thing that you couldn't accomplish with a $3 tube of caulk. Where are you anyway?

When I say refusals, they relate to all three issues listed in my original post, but denshield is the biggest issue. Of course several are willing to tear the whole thing out and redo it with durock, at a much higher cost. When you say they don't even know what it is. Some of them I am sure you are right, because they call it drywall. Now it is a drywall derivative, but I have kept saying it is denshield. I even pulled out the GP documentation on it. A couple have said that it isn't to code, I have to clarify that it is as I had check with the city before I installed it.

As unhealthy as the economy is at the moment, I personally expected more interested in work. Several said they could start right away, but would only do it if they tore out the denshield.

I am in North Texas region, Coppell to be exact.

I have to agree with Bud, something doesn't sound right with the amount of "installers" refusing. Sounds like a few are refusing because they don't know what they are doing and it is an easy way out without looking like a scam. With the others, it sounds like a price issue. Doesn't sound like a complex install whatsoever.

As unhealthy as the economy is at the moment, I personally expected more interested in work. Several said they could start right away, but would only do it if they tore out the denshield.

but denshield is the biggest issue.

Nathan Denshield IS NOT an issue. A lot of installers including me don't particularly care for it but there is nothing wrong with it.

Of course several are willing to tear the whole thing out and redo it with durock,

Of course they are. I'll tell you something else too -if you use one of those guys they bleed you to death and escalate the job at every opportunity.

because they call it drywall.

IT IS NOT DRY WALL, not even close. These guys just don't have any experience apparently. I have soaked Denshield in a bucket of water for more than a year with no adverse effects to the Denshield. In fact, when I removed it from the bucket of water I peeled off the surface and the base product was in tact and as hard as the day I dunked it in the water. The truth is I was hoping the stuff would fail but it didn't.

A couple have said that it isn't to code

NONSENSE! Denshield meets code everywhere in the country that I know of.

I am in North Texas region, Coppell to be exact.

Ah-ha! I am familiar with Coppell. Try to find a guy by the name of Martin Highbaugh. He used to live in the Lake Dallas area. Better yet go to the Dal Tile store near you (Just off I-35E at Farmers Branch in front of the Home Depot there I think) and walk into the Contractor Desk like you know what you are doing. Those guys will know all the real pros in the area and will be able to suggest twenty or thirty guys you can contact.

Do you have a guest house? I've been known to travel.

I am at the same point in the project as Nathan is. I have installed denshield as well. I have a few questions as I have been receiving some contrary opinions in places like Home-Depot.

Q1) I bought some AcrylPro (pre-mixed) tile adhesive. It exceeds NASI a136. 1 which seems to meet the Denshield requirements.
Has anyone used this pre-mixed stuff? Many have don't use pre-mix ever.

Q2) it says to apply fiberglass tape over joints and embedded with tile bonding material. I also plan to cover the fasteners as well with the bonding material. Is this what I should be doing because I heard someone mention using caulking? Or is the caulk only after the tile is on and you caulk around the bottom of the shower base and the corners?

I like the idea of applying the rediguard on

Rather than hijack an old thread next time start a new thread for yourself. These threads automatically close with the twentieth post. Start as many as you need. This time I'll continue here.

There is nothing wrong with AcrylPro but not in a wet area. Use modified thinset.

Denshield is waterproof. BUT, the seams are not and the fastener penetrations are not and the bedding material (thinset) is not. On the seams I use tape and liquid waterproofing. Liquid waterproofing on the fastener heads also. Caulk has been known to re-imulsify over time when exposed to constant moisture. Not all caulks are submersible. I wouldn't trust a caulk in this application, use waterproofing.

The caulk is safe to use on top of the tile where it can dry after each exposure to water. All "changes-in plane" should be caulked.

Oh, one more thing, be very careful getting information from those guys at the box stores. Most of them have no real experience and some of this stuff is too complicated for them to comprehend.

I would personally and professionally not use Denshield on my bathroom reno jobs if that wall is an exterior wall. I am the service manager of a medium sized builder; and have been taken walls down due to a failure in the product. We have not determined if it has anything to due with the fact that a wicking effect or condensation builup between the vapour barrier and the Denshields built in vapour barrier. We are getting high moister between the two which causes the Denshield to fail and the fasters pull through. The product fails from the back side; and contrary to belief, it is not waterproof like Durock.

Mike

Durock is not waterproof, never has been, never seen anyone claim it is.

Denshield is not waterproof from the backside, the manufacturer says it is from the front side.

If moisture is developing in the wall cavity of an exterior wall clad on the interior side with Denshield, I would be taking a long hard look at the type of insulation being used in the cavity and the exterior house wrap (if any) and the exterior wall covering.

If Denshield on an interior wall (shower) is an issue then so are all of the liquid waterproofing products as well as Schluter's KERDI Mat and WEDI Board.

If the "vapor barrier" you are referring to is a vapor barrier on the inside of the studs and under the Denshield then the vapor barrier is your problem. It shouldn't be there to begin with. That recommendation is an industry wide recommendation. Faulting the Denshield isn't the problem.

The vapor barrier is however a requirement under traditional cement boards. I suggest you the "Service Manager of a medium size builder" research this a little further to better understand the industry standards before you 86 a product like Denshield.