Drop in tub has no flange, how to seal for shower?

The American Standard whirlpool was on sale! I knew there would be a sealing issue, but hay, it was real cheap, so it is now installed in a typical bath/shower type alcove and I am learning about tile. This place is loaded with great advice from skilled craftsmen, I have learned much here. Thanx to all for this wealth of knowledge. So far, I have learned that there are reasons that these drop in tubs aren't well suited for alcove installations when a shower will be present.

So the jet tub, without flanges, is set in a morter base with leveling stringers as per manufacturer. The tub is against three walls. The alcove. The tub is also plumbed for a shower which is not really what it is intended for. The potential for leaks around the top deck of the tub where it meets the wall is very high unless I pay special attention to this atypical installation. The short wall at the skirt side of the tub is 2 x 4 framing, the tub lip gently rests on the leveling stringer on the inside of that short wall, so, the 3 1/2" wide wall then is exposed outward of the lip of the tub in hopes of attaching a glass shower door atop that space.

I am presented with two separate sealing issues.

1) The tub has no flange. There is a cheesy looking vinyl "tile bead" that American Standard offers for such installations, but seeing the pictures of that stuff offers me little confidence against water leaks at the three walls. From this forum I have learned about Ditra and/or Kerdi that may work better.

2) Since the tub has a lip at the shower door side, it seems that unless the tile is actually installed over the top of tub surface, there will be a sunken well for water to gather and sit in between the tub lip and the shower door track. This is not acceptable and I am certain it will fail there.

I suppose my question is to see if any of you have installed a drop in tub with leakproof success in a shower situation, and if so, how you solved those two issues.

I am considering that the best approach may be to tile over top of the tub surface after choosing a way to do all of that sealing that goes on beneath it. I could do this but only have enough room for about a one inch overlap of tile onto the tub surface.

Any ideas here will be greatly appreciated.

Thanx in advance from a new member.

Peace.

Don't knock that little tile bead kit, embrace it as your friend. You will want to fur out your walls so there will be no stress on the bead and use a good polyurethane caulk at the bead/tub joint. Don't expect caulk to want to stay bonded to a gel gloss scrylic finish so use a 120 grit paper lightly where you will want that 50 year warranty bond.

Kelly,

You have a major bag of worms as you have discovered. If you are willing to tile slightly over the lip of the the tub, I would consider the following.

Across the front opening place a temporary 2X4 form. THEN use deck mud to fill the area around the tub. All four sides. Fill even with the top of the tub sloping slightly higher to the three walls and the form at the front.

Once the cement has dried remove the temporary form and KERDI the top of the cement and up the walls. Kerdi neatly over the top of the tub and use silicone to seal the KERDI to the tub. Tile over all of that and you now have a huge shower receptor ready for shower doors on the front.

There may be some fancy foot work cutting and fitting the tiles but I can see bullnose tile working nicely to cap around the tub. An a-typical installation for sure but not at all impossible.

I like that idea about using the mud to build up to the tub surface, I had considered using multi-layers of Hardi to achieve that but I had not thunk of using mud, thanx, great idea.

Here is my tub installation,



That mud will work nicely here, then covered in Kerdi overlapping the tub about 3/4".



The tub is set kinda tight to the framing, not much room for mud and would need better backing in there.



Perhaps something like the way this Kerdi Dilex-AS is installed here. Not necessarily the Dilex, but this looks like a good water proof they show under the Dilex. This Dilex stuff really does not look bad for an application against the walls, however, it seems to present a problem to use it at the front where the door track is. The trapezoidal attaching goody is too tall unless I build that way up above the tub surface at the skirt wall.



I only have 1-3/4" from the framing before the tub surface sloping begins to fall off steeper, it is relatively flat up to that point.



I, too, was thinking about how nice a bullnose would look there atop the tub surface. The bullnose would work good at the skirt side, but not so good around the walls because of such a tiny sliver. I was thinking about the use of a small cove sort of tile around the walls at the tub surface, but that doesn't seem to work at the skirt side. Ughhh.

Maybe I am over thinking this? American Standard does offer that flimsy looking tile bead they say is exactly for this, and the advice here says it is my friend. It just looks so cheesy, can I really trust it?

I have not even looked at the tile choices available yet, I am sure that something will work good AND look nice, almost like I did this on purpose

Thank you. I reeeeally appreciate the input here. I am a retired carpenter, my tile skills are limited to a couple of shower walls that I floated the old school way, and I built a tile fish pond, that was 30 years ago and the pond leaked, the fish died, the customer was upset. I learned about the importance of sealing things that hold water.

Am I ok by posting pictures? idunno, I am new. I hope I didn't break any copyright laws with the Kerdi picture, it just looks so nice the way they sealed that, don't you think?
~K~

The pictures are a huge help. I was thinking you would have to fill all four sides but I see that isn't necessary.

The wallboard with tile will lap the tub enough to allow minimal filling (if any at all). Thinset would now work for that purpose. KERDI Band can be used for the whole wall/tub juncture. May want to use Schluter's adhesive to seal the KERDI to the tub.

There are 2X2, 2X6, etc. Bull nose available for the tub surface if so desired. Matching cove base could be used at the wall/tub junctures.

Thanx to Bljack and Bud Cline, much appreciation for the input here.

So, in follow-up, and for anyone who runs into this thread with a similar installation, drop in tubs are not well suited for alcove installations. Even less so when a shower is incorporated. Any money saved on a bargain tub without a flange will be quickly spent on the extra attention to water sealing of the wall/tub transition. When a glass door is to be installed and if the tile is set below the tub rim, that installation will cause a low spot between the door track and the tub rim, about one inch deep for water to pool up, not good. Buy a tub with flange and save the aggravation and cost.

The bullnose tile perimeter idea sounds good and would look nice, but after really looking at the tub, I can see that the rim has a bit of flex to it when weight is applied. It moves. Even if I caulk under the flange it will still move a bit. Considering the activity that goes on in the shower/tub and the way the tub flange moves, it seems to me that any tiles applied direct to the tub surface will eventually work themselves loose. The Dilex product is flexible and "hinged" according to the specs, it is designed to move with the tub.

All things considered, I do believe that if I use both the "tile bead" offered by the tub manufacturer, as well as the Dilex-AS, and use the KERDI against the wall as per the illustration two posts above, AND build up the tub skirt-side wall to somewhere above the tub surface (1-1/2" higher is all that is required to install the Dilex), THEN, I could have confidence that their will be no leaks. No leaks means the integrity of the framing of the home is not jeopardized. An ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure.

Here is s link that shows a similar installation to my own, the tub manufacturer "tile bead" was used and it really looks pretty good to me as a seal against the wall and does not look so flimsy as I had previously thought.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71211

Thanx again for the help. Any further input?

~K~

Find a way to inject some NON-EXPANDING FOAM under the tub flange/lip to help reinforce it from movement.