vinyl over vinyl over vinyl ovr asbestos ovr vinyl

That's right. I am forced to put a new floor covering over an insane previous FOUR floors. I really have no choice.

This is a classic DYI scenario in that I am reluctant to remove an existing flooring system, and in that I will propose various hair-brained schemes to workaround it.

Let me explain. My question will follow.

It's a kitchen I'm renovating in a 1957 wood frame ranch. I have no access from below. Floor #1 is original 1957 glued right to the plywood floor. It is a mystery sheet vinyl revealed only where I removed a peninsula, which was added after 1957. Floor #2 is a tile of unknown size, glued right to floor #1. I recovered only one small chip, the rest is nicely buried between floors #1 and #3. I put the small chip in a baggie, and the baggie filled with zillions of little fibers of the same color. I am 95% certain this is asbestos. Glued to this is 1/4" plywood and modern sheet vinyl floor #3. And glued to this is another 1/4" plywood and another modern sheet vinyl floor (#4).

Believe it or not, the fact is I have room for one more 1/4" plywood underlayment. The result will be exactly the height of the carpet in the adjacent rooms.

I "tested" the bond strengths of the various floors. The vinyls and underlayments are extremely well-attached to each other except for the very last vinyl. The last plywood is well-attached, but the last vinyl tends to peel-up slightly from its plywood around the edges in some places.

I have "holes" down to the 1957 plywood where the original cabinets were removed last week. (The dishwasher would never have come out if the old stuff weren't demolished for new cabinets!) And as I said, I have another "hole" down to floor #1 where a peninsula was removed.

I PROPOSE to fill these holes with a lamination of layers of 1/4" plywood and/or other materials - all glued together with some kind of adhesive - until the holes are level with floor #4 - and nail this down through the original floor wood.

Then I plan to cover the whole thing with 1/4" plywood followed by (A) new cabinets, and then (B) a new sheet vinyl floor. This order is dictated by certain project management constraints - otherwise I would just vinyl under the cabinets, too.

NOTE: I cannot afford the time, effort, cost, or hazard of removing the previous floors. I just cannot.

Question #1: What adhesive should be used to glue together the [plywood?] spacers that fill the holes?

Question #2: What adhesive should be used to glue the new plywood underlayment to the existing vinyl floor #4 - and the new vinyl to the new plywood?

Question #3: Should I either nail the existing vinyl before the new plywood (wouldn't hurt, right?) - or nail the new plywood (I presume NOT to do that except along the edges) before gluing the new vinyl sheet?

Your patience with my limitations is appreciated. Your expert advice on this scenario is deeply needed.

Thanks in advance.

Jim,
You better go to another site because nobody here will condone setting tile over a bunch of vinyl and layers of 1/4" luan.

Looks like he wants to install sheet vinyl. My guess is he either:
1) Came to the wrong forum, or
2) Realized this is about the only forum that has knowledgeable professionals responding.

DIYer,
Charles

Thank you, Charles. You're right: I'm talking about vinyl flooring.

And yes, you right about something else. I spend a lot of time here; I know there are pros here who can answer these questions.

Actually, when I posted this, I forgot this was a ceramic/stone tile forum. My apologies. Perhaps someone could refer me to another forum where FLOORS are discussed. Perhaps someone could give me a tip anyway.

Jim-- Try this one--

http://www.thefloorpro.com/community/

There's a forum over there specifically for vinyl. If you go to the ceramic forum there, you'll see alot of familiar names, too.

Thanks for the link, Bill.

However, "http://www.thefloorpro.com/community/" has not been up for several days now. That site is dead for some reason.

Are there any other sites that you can suggest?

Thanks. Jim.

I don't know what's going on, unless you need to register to get to that page. Here's the home page of the site:

http://www.thefloorpro.com/

I KNOW it's not a dead link because I was just there.

Bill,

I love a good mystery! I CANNOT bring up that site. I've tried the "home page" and different times of day. I simply cannot get it to connect. I can't believe Comcast is blocking it, but that CAN happen if their ISP and Comcast are having a dispute. It's happenned before with other ISPs.

Can you send me a phone number or e-mail address I can use to contact them?

Thanks.

PS: I've decided to do what I'm going to do with that vinyl floor stackup. Still, I would like to have a non-stone floor site to go to. Have any other sites to tell me about while I'm debugging the connection to the http://www.thefloorpro.com/ site?

If it helps - I went to that site and was given the opportunity to register.

I got through, finally.

Their website loads a bunch of files in the <HEAD> section, thus preventing the page from rendering on certain connections. I bring it up just fine from my lab where I am directly connected with a 6Mbps cablemodem. I still cannot bring up the page from my usual workspot, a weak wireless connection with a 24% packet loss rate. (Yes, I design websites and internet applications.)

Thanks again, as usual, for the help from my friends here at [floorstransformed.com] - I really appreciated it.

I'm kind of in the same predicament. I realize that some don't condone our methods, but I have two layers of vinyl that need to be covered before we can move.
What did you ever do?

Leah--

It really depends on what you want to cover your floor with.

If it's tile, then you need to be saying goodbye to the vinyl asap.

If it is something else (laminate, vinyl, etc.) then maybe not.

As a general rule of thumb regarding ALL floors--it is always best to remove the existing flooring down to the original subfloor. Tile is the one surface where there is NO other option.

I have been looking online primary to figure out how to properly lay tile on vinyl. (materials) I see you guys bashing it alot. I have given this alot of thought and used my engineering reasoning to weight out the pros and cons. Starting with the pros, my house was built in 94 and is slap in the middle of Mississippi which is known for its shifting slabs because of the Yazoo Clay. The tile over vinyl has no cracks in either of the rooms. When I pulled the carpet up in other rooms, the house shows that movement is there. As a matter of fact, walking around on the tile barefoot, especially in the bathroom, is warmer than my previous homes. My vinyl seems to be firmly attached and I know this because I have areas that are exposed where I am doing work in adjoining rooms. Cons: I see alot of relevance to the concerns with delamination. I don't think I will own this home long enough to experience that. I think you guys forget that is a factor for the do-it-yourself fixer upper. Everybody says remove it, but I do not think one of you has seen a problem with vinyl that is attached well and has been for some time. If so, you'd be seeing things, because there wouldn't be a problem. Well attached vinyl under properly laid tile=no issue.

I have been looking online primary to figure out how to properly lay tile on vinyl.

There isn't any.

Well attached vinyl under properly laid tile=no issue.

Nonsense, obviously you don't set tile for a living and just because your floor is fine, doesn't mean they all will last, lousy advice is you ask me.

Rd. I think the key here is perspective. A professional would do things so they last and a customer would want this in many cases.

If however, you are a DIYer and you are not keeping the house for long then maybe a crappy job that last just until the new owners figure out they have a problem is good enough.

When we were buying a house 2 years ago I made a bid on a DIY house and I figured the cost of undoing the "improvements" into my price. I met the seller and he flipped out on my offer. I walked him through the house and pointed out many examples of poor work. I understood he was just saving a penny, cutting corners, didn't know right/wrong and didn't care who owned the house next.

Beware! Also, beware of people who are smart at other things and think they are smarter than experts. I will always trust a person who earns a living at a job before one who is just "playing".

JimR

Jeff you need to do more research. You have obviously missed the whole point in why we discourage installing ceramic tile over vinyl. It has little to do with the vinyl itself. You should know that the "legitimate industry" discourages the process. It is only the "shoot from the hip" portion of the industry that condones the idea. Nice holster you got there Roy!