Installing porcelain tile outdoors

We wish to tile our outdoor, screened porch; we live in PA. After doing some research, we have been advised that unglazed porcelain tile would be the best because it's frost proof, although we don't know if all are, and has low water absorption. Can you tile directly over a clean, smooth, thick concrete slab? We believe the tiles would have to be sealed before grouting to avoid staining during application, and then grout would have to be sealed. Would Master Blend Thinset be okay to use as the mortar? We've read that Laticrete has a grout for use outdoors and that we may be able to get that through Lowe's. Is it true that most porcelain tile can be used outdoors? Thanks so much."

You can use a glazed Porcelain if you like, in a variety of colors and textures that look like stone, no need to seal those, just the grout.

DO NOT use masterblend, unless adding the additive.

You can use Flexbond, sold right next to it, easier to use, just add water.

Yes, Porcelain is the best tile for outdoor use.

Thanks a lot for the information. Someone also recommended that we use something called uncoupling membrane on the concrete slab under the tiles. This is quite expensive - can cost about as much as the tiles. Do you think it's necessary to use this? The idea is that with the cold and warm weather, the concrete will expand at times, I guess. This uncoupling membrane is supposed to help with that so tiles don't crack. However, we've lived here 14 years with this slab of concrete, and there isn't a crack in it anywhere. Do you know if people have had success tiling right over concrete outside in a 4 season area of the country? Thanks.

First, I have to disagree with Rd (to a point). I would NOT use the flexbond. Go with the masterblend, but as Rd recommended, use the latex additive. Reason being a much greater latex content, meaning a much stronger bond. As for the uncoupling membrane, I wouldn't do it, but I WOULD use a membrane. Go to Noble's like above, and find a product called Nobledeck. It's a much better choice for an exterior installation. The reason for it is that it'll protect your tile from any kind of lateral cracking that might occur in the concrete. I specify lateral cracking because if vertical movement occurs, there's not a membrane in the world that'll protect the tile.

That SHOULD read Noble's LINK above!

Gail.

Did you complete the tile project? We are a very similar situation--exterior porch in western PA. Have lived in house for 13 years. No concrete cracks. We are trying to decide between tile and stone.

I'm courious how your project came out, and what materials you used.

Thanks. Rod

Hello!

I am in Fort Washington, MD and would like to tile over my concrete patio. No cracks or bumps. It's 70' by 8'. I'm having difficulty finding tile at a reasonable price. I know I need a porcelain tile but can't seem to find the amout of tile I need to meet my budget. I didn't want to have to spend more than $1,000.00. Does anyone know where I can purchase this tile?

LaVerne

You may need to re-visit your budget.

Laverne,

I'm wondering how you came up with $1,000 to buy 560 ft. Or so of porcelain tile? Is it based on any real info you have? Although it is possible to get porcelain in that price range, I'm not sure I'd want to own it.

Tile today is much cheaper than ever, a true flooring bargain. An average quality porcelain can be found in the $2.50 and up range. High end maybe $4.00-6.00? If you're not too fussy and get lucky, (especially these days), you can find good porcelain for under $2.00 and closeouts or seconds even cheaper.

Jaz

Thinset?
Grout?
Crack Isolation membrane?
Sealer?

You're not needing a lot of tile.

You might get lucky visiting a real tile showroom and looking at their overstock and discountinued tile.

In outdoor areas, you need to use tiles that are non-porous, resist stains, and be salt-safe. Good quality porcelain tiles are saltwater and chlorine safe, are resistant to losing colour over time, and can be used in areas where there is likely to be food or oil spills, such as around the barbecue without the risk of staining. However, there are a number of tiles on the market that combine the qualities of porcelain and ceramic tiles, making them an excellent choice for where a wholly porcelain tile is not necessary.
When installing tiles outdoor, they must be laid on a concrete slab. This is so that the tiles have a uniform flatness level. Generally, tiles are glued to the slab and then grout is applied to the gaps. If your tiles are not currently protected from the elements, you need to pre-seal them before they are laid. Once the tiles are laid, a penetrating seal is applied, and this is particularly important for ceramic tiles.

[Edited by Carter on Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 7:58 pm EST]

Laverne, your budget is very unrealistic. You might want to add another $500 to it for starters, and that is if you can find good tile on closeout prices. Remember, this is an investment and tile has a lifespan of 30 to 50 years if installed correctly.

Harmon, not wanting to nitpick, but you are wrong on a few levels.""However, there are a number of tiles on the market that combine the qualities of porcelain and ceramic tiles, making them an excellent choice for where a wholly porcelain tile is not necessary""What would these tiles be?""When installing tiles outdoor, they must be laid on a concrete slab"", since when? ""

a penetrating seal is applied""

, not going to penetrate any glazed tiles.
Also, stop plugging your website, not the place for it!

Harmon,

As Marco just mentioned< I too think you're wrong about a few things.

This thread is about and outdoor screened porch in Pennsylvania. You should know the weather in PA, since you are from there too. You have to use a frost-proof tile, like porcelain. As you know, porcelain by definition has to have an absorption factor of (0.5)% or less.

Tiles can be installed outdoors over concrete and also on decks. Of course installing on a deck is more involved requiring cement board and a membrane etc.

Not sure what you're trying to say about sealers. What is your definition of "ceramic tiles"? Porcelain is ceramic, but ceramic may not be porcelain. If your ceramic is not frost-proof sealing it isn't going to save it outdoors.

Jaz

Harmon, not wanting to nitpick, but you are wrong on a few levels.

AMEN!

I'm thinking he is spamming us with his web address in hopes of snagging some local prey. Seems like his last post was in response to someone near his location and his advice was questionable in that response also.

Can you tell me what the difference is between a porcelain tile and a porcelain glazed tile is? Could this be used in Tennessee, where are winters are not too harsh?

Porcelain tile is porcelain tile basically. It comes glazed and unglazed. One is not necessarily any different from the other. Porcelain tiles have a lower moisture absorbtion rating (ability) than most all other tile offerings. Porcelain tile is one of the few that should be used in an out door environment.

Tennessee? Absolutely!
Now ask about the proper thinset mortar adhesive to use out doors.

What IS the proper thinset mortar adhesive to use out doors? What about grout, is there a certain kind for outdoors?

Hi Gail,

As an installer I suggest for porcelain tile, exterior use, you consult the manufacturer of the porcelain, and laticrete to ask what is recommended for exterior use in Pa.

I will tell you that you would most likely be advised if installation in colder weather you add antifreeze to the thinset. It helps protect it from cracking.

As far as an uncoupling membrane the best product is made by Schluter. It is called ditra matting, and you can read all specs on their website. [Schluter.com]
Laticrete has a home base in Connecticut, and can answer all of your questions for setting materials and grouts for outdoor [use.laticrete.com]

I have worked for a major tile distributor in Orlando Florida, as well as being an installer for over 25 years now. I started in Mass. And have attended numerous seminars and training for all floor covering.

Contact those manufacturers. I promise you will get excellent satisfaction in use of products and information given.

I wish you luck in your venture. If I can be of any more help let me know.

Linda

Linda,

I was starting to believe you had some experience in the tile business as you suggested Schluter's Rondec stair nosing and Ditra to people here today.

BUT now you told the poster MLS, to add antifreeze to their thin set mortar and so we know you may be a rookie or wannabe?

Being that it is in writing, some people might just believe what you said, so will you please explain or take it back.

Also, since you are new here, how about introducing yourself along with what ever knowledge you may have in proper tile installation.

Jaz