Denshield as backer.

I've posted here several times in the past about the bad tile job done I had done (and paid lots of cash) last summer. The grout kept cracking, was discolored. The tile guy came back four times to attempt at correcting it, only making it worse each time. The old tile before installation was thick set on 1 x 6 diagonal subfloor (house was built in the 50s). The tile guy (I won't call him a contractor because that's an insult to all contractors) apparently used Denshield nailed to the 1 x 6 diagonals as subflooring. It's just like gypsum board and I'm pretty ticked now that I've figured out what he did. I actually pulled up a tile (not hard to do by the way) to confirm it. I called the guy and told him I was filing a consumer complaint on his behalf to the attorney general's office (I know it won't do anything but make me feel better). In any case I checked out the Denshield product info. Online and they advertise it's suitable for floors, but I'm skeptical. Can you tell me what you know about this product and if I'm right to assert that they blatently did an incompetent job?
Thanks

Sharon, I can tell you that my local tile store only sells dens-shield as a backerboard, instead of the old cement board. Perhpas your installer did something esle wrong.

Hi Sharon the denshield board is not suitable for floors and I realy dont like to use it over walls. But in any case the only thing you can do is rip out the installation and have it done again. This time if you have it done make sure they use DUROCK WONDERBOARD or HARDYBACKER board or half inch plywood. All acceptable for tile floors.

No backerboard will last if installed over 1x6 sheathing. The sheathing is acting as an independent support and will bend without the support of the neighboring boards. First the floor needs to have plywood installed over the sheathing preferrably with screws that will draw the sheathing and plywood together. This will provide the maximun support and least deflection of this floor. Then the backerboard can be installed over the plywood as mfg. Specifies, but preferrably with thinset and roofing nails or backer-board screws. Then the tile can be installed.

I agree with TGR Tile and completely disagree with dave Paton. Denshield is perfectly suitable for floors or walls. I never use Durock anymore, only Denshield and I've NEVER had an application go bad. It's the 1x6 sheathing that ruined this job. Sounds like he either didn't know what he was doing or wanted to cut some corners. Your best bet is to tear it up and start over with a proper underlayment, as TGR Tile described.

If you look for another tile installer, insist on seeing some of his/her work in person (not just pictures). I give my clients a tour of my house so they can see my work. I also will arrange for them to see former customers' jobs too.

Good luck!

Use latex in place of water when mixing grout. It makes it flexible and prevents cracking. Often matching latex/grout can be purchased in a calking tube format for
Use around floor edges in hard to reach areas. Ask Home Depot dealer for details.
I have never had a bad experience using Denshield. It needs to be screwed to the subfloor every 6", not nailed!

Sharon,

A little late for a response, but this still appears on some search engines. As a member of the National Tile Contractors Association, Southern Building Code Congress, and Better Business Bureau serving the Wiregrass, I can tell you that a finish material (in this case-tile) will only perform as well as the surface that has been prepared beneath. Tile, thinset, and grout are all very rigid materials and as such are very very limited in terms of flexibility. Old houses were built using 1x6 subfloors. These subfloors are inherently FLEXIBLE. Did your home or any other old home you have seen or heard about that had 1x6 subfloors have any underlayment other than a cement mortar bed (thick set as you have called it)? My guess is NO. Manufacturer instruction for any backerboard requires that the backer be installed over floor joists that are spaced 16" apart. However, this standard is meant to apply to todays building standards. NOT building standards from decades before. Todays standards call for PLYWOOD to be installed as a subfloor over floor joists. The backerboard is then placed on top of the plywood subfloor. Furthermore, other factors come into consideration even with current building standards such as the deflection to be expected from the length of the span of the room in which tile is to be installed. This factor alone requires some brains and some research if the job is to have any assurance as to long term performance. Saying that you will not call this guy a tile contractor because that is an insult to all contractors is your opinion. Was he/she really a bad tile contractor, or were you a bad investigator? Since you were able to research the Denshield product after the fact; were you not able to research the product before the fact? Why are you skeptical about Denshield even though the company that makes it is very reputable with the products they sell? Did you actually explain your situation to someone at the company that makes Denshield? How could you possibly deduce that the whole source of your problem came from Denshield? Furthermore, how well did you check out the tile contractor? Did you know how many floor preparation options are available and which one is appropriate for your situation?! Did you know what to look for in a GOOD tile contractor? Were you acting as your own general contractor who hired the tile subcontractor? If so, did you file a building permit or even call the building inspector to find out if you should? Look, I am not trying to rip apart your case, but if you file a consumer complaint against this guy you are not doing anybody a favor-not even yourself. You could actually hurt yourself if you do; especially if a lawsuit is filed. You should not have used the guy in the first place. That is your fault. Do your homework! Think your situation through no matter how simple you think the renovation is. A home renovation is a very complex thing if the job is to be done right. If you were able to research online for the Denshield, it would not have taken that much more time to find out more about the resources available in regard to understanding good and proper tile installation and preparation procedures. From these same resources, you could have found out what level of tile contractor you were looking for. Use a search engine to research the following resources- available to anyone willing to go the appropriate mile.

>National Tile Contractors Association
>Tile Council of America
>American National Standards Institute for the Installation of Ceramic Tile

Or you may e-mail me anytime you like with questions.
>bat@archertile.com

Bryon Archer
Owner, Archer Tile

Better late than never. I use denshield as often as I can on bathroom WALLS, not on floors. I have yet to have any complaints about the work I have done. I don't think this product was meant for the floor even though some think it is. I use dura-rock for that. I hope you have taken care of your problem by know. If the TILE MAN is any kind of a decent laborer, he would repair the shotty workmanship he had done and appologize for the inconvenience he has caused you and your family. He should do so if he hopes to get any recomedations for future work.

A little late. But still valuable. I installed Denshield in my home 8 years ago. I have not had a single problem with it. We used it on the floors in my kitchen, hallway and bathrooms. I know denshield is perfectly fine for floors. Proper installation of anything is the key.

Carla,
The Denshield isn't the problem in the above scenario (which is more than a year old by the way). The problem is the 1 X 6 that the Denshield was installed on. THAT IS A NO-NO with any tile backer, not just Denshield.

Sharon, I work at retail building store for 15 years and JUST TO LET YOU AND ALL THE OTHERS THAT HAVE REPLIED TO YOUR LETTER. DENSHIELD CAN BE USED ON FLOORS PROVIDING THAT YOU HAVE A PROPER BASE

Ian, hope she figured it all out, it's been 5 years now.